Renewal

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rosemarie Vest on May 6, 2010 at 10:48pm

Bob, Circumstances (allergies and having to slow down) guided me to take the time I need to renew and readjust my spiritual footing.Thanks for these timeless words and the reminder to strengthen myself as God's servant. Blessings, Rose

Permalink Reply by Maria on August 17, 2010 at 2:42pm

I came from a very traditional church background where there was a lot of emphasis on rules, legalism and tradition , in which one did not question anything and Christians were forbidden to sing, dance, be involved with anything of an artistic nature - they were to be seen as on a higher platform, taking nothing to do with such "frivolities" and preachers were highly revered and seen as almost beyond human. Sadly, most of us who were brought up in this tradition, rebelled and turned our backs on the church as young adults ( the first chance to breathe and be yourself, released from fear) No living in chains of stiff expectations and false piety. So....many years on, a return to church (in a different place and different age)has awoken something anew.....but boy, am I struggling and wrestling with God!. The fresh desire and pains of new birth wrestling with the bitterness and doors shut in the past. I still love the place I came from but the tradition still exists there and I cannot get over this barrier - the feeling that to relinquish control is to give in to that and to being talked over , patronised, stiff and solemn , controlled. I am now almost middle aged but STILL have such strong feelings against that! Is this wrong?I know God does not require me to live like that (only people and the tradition impose these expectations) but it's a real struggle to surrender control. Much struggle...getting tired!

Permalink Reply by Tami on August 18, 2010 at 9:12am

Maria, I both sympathize and empathize with you. I went to a church when I was younger that was dead. The congregation mean age was at least 70, the singing was nothing more than a drone, and the severity of the teaching extreme. I knew nothing of God's love, only retribution and punishment - was actually slapped and told what a nuisance and bother my brothers and I were to the congregants. I quit, and when I did, I split the church as there were many that didn't agree with what had been done to me, but never spoke up about it. I stayed away for many years. My parents talked me into going to their church many years later a couple of times, and was made to feel guilty for breaking my parents hearts by not attending church. Needless to stay, yet another reason to stay away. After losing dad, mom talked me into going with her to her new church as the old one banned her bible after dad died. This time, someone told me that I was actually endangering mom's salvation by not going. Others criticized me for not attending. Really makes you want to go, right?

Remeber David dancing in the streets, naked, and singing his joy and his love for God? Did God criticize this, or condemn it? NO! He loved it, this was the sort of adoration that He really wants. Someone that is happy to love Him, showing it with the joy and abandonment of a child.

The control thing, I so understand that and struggle with it daily. I have to wonder if it might not be partly because of my nationality. We are so used to going with gusto, reaching for that brass ring all on our own, that to tell ourselves that someone else is actually in charge - you're kidding, right? I think that others that have lived with a longtime political leader, or under extreme tyranny might have a little easier time with it, especially as they can say that someone else is in charge, but that this "someone else" has so much better in mind for them than what they have lived with.

I saw something on tv the other night, "everyone has a story" on the news, and it was in India, about an elderly blind man, who is still working to care for his family, but they all live together, have one bank account, and someone is always just around to care for gramps. and they were so happy, so accepting of his blindness, his acceptance of it and the steps to deal with it and still care for his family. It was beautiful, that they would knit themselves together so tightly, and still be so much themselves. This is also how God wants us to be. Gramps relied on God to get him thru going blind and for finding ways to keep supporting his family, and by his example, the family was strong in their faith as they could see God working while everything worked out for them, even through struggles.

I hope this helps somewhat. Also remember, Joseph fought with God all one night by a river, and had his name changed that morning to Israel. We all struggle one way or another, and when the time is right, we will be anointed with a new name and appreciation for the struggle.

Permalink Reply by Maria on August 18, 2010 at 2:07pm

Tami, thank you so much for your lovely reply and yes, it does help ( just to know someone else had similar experiences and struggles is a tremendous help and makes me so grateful for the internet and the possibility to share things
in forums like this, no matter which part of the world we're in - amazing!) I am so sorry for what you went through and that must have been very difficult indeed for you and your family. It's bad that places can get like that - institutionalised and more focussed on retribution than on love. I so identify with your comments regarding being made to feel guilty for not going ( yes...really made you want to go, right?) I believe that still has a lasting effect on many people
where I come from and is largely responsible for turning people right dead against the church - teaching based on fear and punishment (to this day I'm wary of having young children exposed to this kind of preaching) But happily, things are changing...even back where I come from, albeit slowly.(recently, during a holiday back home a man asked
me what "kind of bible" was used in the church I went to as "there were many kinds"and none of them were correct"bar the traditional version they used. I politely said there was a big world out there but only one message ( and then seethed inside with all the old feelings of frustration bubbling away inside of me during my walk back to the house!!
I felt patronised and suffocated all over again, despite being a middle-aged adult!! ) ) However, times are changing and it is so encouraging to see young Christians emerging from these churches, twenty/thirty years on, full of joy and zest for life. It is good to think God wants us just as we are ( and that he knows us anyway!) I'm still on the cautiously feeling-my-way-along side of things and have had many swings and roundabouts over the past year or two. But it's great to visit sites like this and it helps a lot (love Max Lucado's books and website) I'm so happy you found a way and thanks so much for your answer. (Also for the encouraging and reassuring words "when the time is right") Keep on, keeping on!




Tami said:

Maria, I both sympathize and empathize with you. I went to a church when I was younger that was dead. The congregation mean age was at least 70, the singing was nothing more than a drone, and the severity of the teaching extreme. I knew nothing of God's love, only retribution and punishment - was actually slapped and told what a nuisance and bother my brothers and I were to the congregants. I quit, and when I did, I split the church as there were many that didn't agree with what had been done to me, but never spoke up about it. I stayed away for many years. My parents talked me into going to their church many years later a couple of times, and was made to feel guilty for breaking my parents hearts by not attending church. Needless to stay, yet another reason to stay away. After losing dad, mom talked me into going with her to her new church as the old one banned her bible after dad died. This time, someone told me that I was actually endangering mom's salvation by not going. Others criticized me for not attending. Really makes you want to go, right?

Remeber David dancing in the streets, naked, and singing his joy and his love for God? Did God criticize this, or condemn it? NO! He loved it, this was the sort of adoration that He really wants. Someone that is happy to love Him, showing it with the joy and abandonment of a child.

The control thing, I so understand that and struggle with it daily. I have to wonder if it might not be partly because of my nationality. We are so used to going with gusto, reaching for that brass ring all on our own, that to tell ourselves that someone else is actually in charge - you're kidding, right? I think that others that have lived with a longtime political leader, or under extreme tyranny might have a little easier time with it, especially as they can say that someone else is in charge, but that this "someone else" has so much better in mind for them than what they have lived with.

I saw something on tv the other night, "everyone has a story" on the news, and it was in India, about an elderly blind man, who is still working to care for his family, but they all live together, have one bank account, and someone is always just around to care for gramps. and they were so happy, so accepting of his blindness, his acceptance of it and the steps to deal with it and still care for his family. It was beautiful, that they would knit themselves together so tightly, and still be so much themselves. This is also how God wants us to be. Gramps relied on God to get him thru going blind and for finding ways to keep supporting his family, and by his example, the family was strong in their faith as they could see God working while everything worked out for them, even through struggles.

I hope this helps somewhat. Also remember, Joseph fought with God all one night by a river, and had his name changed that morning to Israel. We all struggle one way or another, and when the time is right, we will be anointed with a new name and appreciation for the struggle.

Permalink Reply by Tami on August 18, 2010 at 2:32pm

Maria, the tower of Babel is an example that you could use for the need for so many translations, and if any one translation opens the Word to you, then where is it wrong?!?

Also, the tremendous rise in contemporary Christian music speaks to the need for there to be many paths leading to the One that will take us home. I never was much for the traditional hymns, minus a few, that were droned in my initial experience of a church. But, there are so many churches that are including the more modern music, as music speaks to youth.

I have to say that the Sunday School teacher that I had before I quit that church was a wonderful man and teacher. He was new to it all, and tried to prepare weekly lessons. But he had teens and he knew that if he had food, that was a great start, as kids would come for food. He also recognized, that when one of us was struggling with something and asked a question, he knew that his lesson had been hijacked and that he needed to deal with the issue. He had a great bible with a tremendous concordance, and so he would look up verses that he felt dealt with the issue we were struggling with. His classes really started to grow with teens that came for the cameraderie as well as answers. They wouldn't stay for the rest of church, just his Sunday school lesson. Did anyone pick up on that? no. Same thing with my mother's church. She was the teen teacher and her kids came for her lesson, or to get help with something, and then would leave. And no one picked up on that either. So, when the banned her bible (yes, banned the NIV), and she quit, so did all her teens and the church about went under.

They need to see, and learn, and grow from this.

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